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Public Discussion => Public Discussion => Serious Discussion => Topic started by: sirit on October 12, 2007, 12:20:56 AM

Title: Dream life
Post by: sirit on October 12, 2007, 12:20:56 AM
There is a possibility if we are just imagining everything that we see/hear and that nothing besides our thoughts were real.  If that is true, than we can't trust anything or anyone since they are only a product of our imagination.
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: HardDrive on October 12, 2007, 12:48:45 AM
I guess that's one way to look at it.. there's also the factors of human perception.
It's not even a matter of them being imaginary, it's a matter of our view of them possibly being totally unique to anyone else's. People tend to anchor on what they see in common, and what is anchored upon is agreed upon as 'reality.' We can only really see the world from our own perspective, and that makes every part of it uncertain, but terms such as real and imaginary are vague, but humans always have to express themselves with a certain amount of certainty or else it's all one pointless incoherent blur, kind of like if we took the scientific method to heart and used it in every day speech. we could never be certain of anything, let alone the simplest stuff.
I'd consider the anchors the concepts that people hold. Numbers, math.. spelling, alphabets.. syntax. They are meant as communication tools at the most basic level. none of them are "real" per se, but then again, by the standards of human perception, real is a very loose label. But they are based in tangible things, which two people can reach out and touch, either metaphorically or physically.. which is all that can really be described as real.
 
What does this have to do with a dream world? Well.. seeing as how we only have our own perception with which to interpret the world, it seems meaningless to even ask. we would never be able to escape the dream world if it were truly a dream world, same with the "computer simulation" thread. Strange occurances could people going crazy, it would be computer error, it could be someone's fantasy.. could simply be something we don't understand.
That being said I've thought about it and the above is really the result.
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: sol black on October 12, 2007, 02:48:31 AM
What would be the point of finding out if we live in a dream world?  Well it could imply many things and some of those things might be worth waking up for, if we were able to awaken at all.  However, until a path to that acknowledgment is presented, other than the musings of my imagination, i would conclude my interest in something like this is not as useful as my thoughts in other areas.   However i am still compelled to talk about it...

One thing I would like to mention is the obvious relativity of what is real.  Should we awaken from this world would it seem more real all of a sudden?  Would we have to learn that reality from a baby's viewpoint, with new senses and completely knew concepts of how things work from ourselves to the very most basic mechanics of the world around us.  What would change significantly to make it more real, and is it possible to make things more real.  As we define real we are experiencing it and to change what we acknowledge as real would in fact by our definition make it false.  So whose real are we talking about...

Suppose we are computer simulated.  What's real at this point is in fact rather vague and undefinable.  Not only because of the possibility and unavoidable question," well if we're simulated perhaps so are our makers," but also because we define real as what actually has effect and substance in our lives.  So since this new "real" place would be completely foreign and not understood by us, unless what is real to us was designed to mimic that reality ( which seems like a boring simulation to me), the only thing that would now actually become false is our perception that this place did not exist.  Should we find out that it does exist by our measures of what is real and what is not, the life and reality that we are used too would not become any less real for us but rather it would have to be perceived in a different context which really is more of a scientific/religious issue as opposed to a philosophical one.

Or perhaps we are in our own dream world or someone elses... well first of all... I've never had dreams that were quite like this stable and consistent.  Also should this be a dream world i would apply the same idea's to it as a computer simulation.  Would waking up actually produce any more real a feeling other than the fact that the context in which our reality lies has changed.  My guess is that unless we were to awaken to something actually better than this life it's not worth waking up.  "Better than this life," being relative to each person.  Again the word realistic in this scenario is relative and should your reality change you must be willing to admit, since your previous reality proved unreal, that this new reality too is possibly "fake" and the "true reality" is still to be found.  Furthermore, you could also argue since at this point you can no longer define reality as being what you perceive it as, because your last perceptions were "wrong", that in fact everything you experience is fake.  And if everything you experience is fake... ironically THAT becomes your reality.  

So to say again... anything you experience is your reality, and should you wake up and find out that it wasn't as organic as you thought, in fact its merely the context of reality that has changed and not reality itself.  

lastly it seems in order for what im saying to be bullshit you'd have to defend an idea that the new reality would be something we couldn't possibly understand or comprehend.  it'd be like trying to create a brand new color that no one has ever seen.
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: sirit on October 12, 2007, 11:24:42 AM
Plato's cave
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: sol black on October 12, 2007, 12:26:20 PM
when discussing illusion in our own reality you can apply a more firm definition of what is real (fact) and what is fake (false).  

In an example of prisoners looking at shadows on the wall, I would say that the shadows are real but not fully understood.  Just because you find out that something isn't what it seemed does not necessarily prove it to be fake, but rather places what is real in a more elaborate context to be better understood through cause, effect, and then importance.  The only thing that would change is your personal view of what significants those things have.  I think the cave is more used as an illustration to show the importance of an open mind as opposed to trying to define the frailty of reality.

The alternative being a true illusion like a mirage where you seem to see the ocean or water and there is in fact nothing there.
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: Moddy on October 12, 2007, 12:28:26 PM
when i play tribe i feel like im in game
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: sirit on October 12, 2007, 12:50:06 PM
BTW, what I was saying is basically nihilism, and I am not a nihilist.
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: kizoku on October 12, 2007, 01:25:24 PM
simple post... spammed with "too long to even read" opinions... and then argued again...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Best way to win an arguement is by avoiding it.
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: sol black on October 12, 2007, 01:44:39 PM
perhaps for you.  plus this is a discussion not an argument
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: HardDrive on October 12, 2007, 01:48:40 PM
Quote from: kizoku;224429
simple post... spammed with "too long to even read" opinions... and then argued again...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Best way to win an arguement is by avoiding it.

Yeah, if only the simple-minded pacifism approach worked. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: Billy The Kid on October 30, 2007, 10:49:21 PM
You have 2 wake up now, its year 2007.
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: Bramage on October 31, 2007, 10:58:36 AM
Quote from: sirit;224326
There is a possibility if we are just imagining everything that we see/hear and that nothing besides our thoughts were real. If that is true, than we can't trust anything or anyone since they are only a product of our imagination.

I think you are referring to the Philosophy of Solipsism.
 
The philosophical idea that "My mind is the only thing that I know exists".
 
Also looked at as that you create your own reality.  By changing how you percieve something you can change your reality. If you have ever read the Series by Roger Zelazny called Amber that is a perfect example of Solipsism. The Princes of Amber can change the world by changing a part. Green Sky instead of Blue etc. Creating a new reality.
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: LeftYa* on February 11, 2010, 03:50:30 AM
Wow wish i had seen this when topic was in play. Check out the book Toltec Prophecies, it can be found in the new age section of any barnes and noble. Great book and an easy read. Life is a dream
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: tension- on February 11, 2010, 11:58:14 AM
This thread reminds me of back in the day when I was into Astral Projection..  pretty interesting stuff.
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: LeftYa* on February 11, 2010, 01:33:21 PM
I got a pretty good book on that as well.. but after ur travels and awakenings in awarness.. all you wana do is live life and not project
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: whakka on February 16, 2010, 02:47:21 AM
this will be a cool thread till manifesto comes in here and gays it up. good reads from sol and hd.
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: sol black on February 22, 2010, 03:31:11 PM
so in projecting you claim that your conscience leaves your body and you move freely about the world without being hindered by time or the physical?
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: SUICIDAL on February 24, 2010, 01:29:52 AM
one time i put my penis in my butt :D true story
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: tension- on February 24, 2010, 11:39:03 AM
Quote from: sol black;315024
so in projecting you claim that your conscience leaves your body and you move freely about the world without being hindered by time or the physical?


Well the people who practice it claim that there are different 'planes' of existence, and when you project, you are on a different plane--so yes, they claim that you can actually go places you've never been and actually see what is there..  they also claim that you can even meet other people who are projecting.

I've seen stories of people claiming it to be true and providing "proof".  They would have someone write something on paper, and then project there and tell the person what they wrote..  but I read these stories online, so who knows if it's true or not.
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: sol black on February 24, 2010, 11:46:48 AM
hmmm...
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: SUICIDAL on February 24, 2010, 03:25:34 PM
you guys smoked your self retarded :D
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: tension- on February 24, 2010, 06:21:10 PM
http://www.astralvoyage.com/

that was a big resource for me when I was looking into it
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: Chaquan on May 11, 2011, 10:40:59 PM
To see that you create your own reality. By changing how you look  at the things you can change your reality. If you've ever read Roger Zelazny  Amber series called solipsism, this is a good example...
Title: Re: Dream life
Post by: Comack on May 24, 2011, 11:01:34 AM
I find myself every night in the middle of a hellhole. I find my self fighting battle after battle...I don't know what against, but every night I find myself hunkered down in the trenches, I run, my rifle blazing in the deep, moonless land. Other times, I find myself talking to people and in places I should know, but don't.
 
Is the life I'm living now a dream. Is it all hopeless? I can't figure it out, and I'm so confused. Life...life is nothing more than suffering...pain. Maybe? Perhaps this life is a dream...