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Development => Renegades Development (Public) => Topic started by: Medal on March 04, 2008, 09:40:43 PM

Title: Vulcan
Post by: Medal on March 04, 2008, 09:40:43 PM
I've seen several people mention the vulcan being overpowered.
 
There are several possibilities for it, increasing the spread, reducing the rate of fire, and maybe something like T:V where it gets more inaccurate as you continue to whor I mean fire it.
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: Apex on March 04, 2008, 10:09:14 PM
Both increase spread and decrease rate of fire

This would especially come in handy because the vulcan has a longer range than it should, and with higher spread, Cyborg's wouldn't be able to kill lighter armors from afar as easy.

Then again, increasing the rate of fire would cause the player to run out of ammo quicker if not careful, making them to use their ammo wisely and not spread for 10 seconds all over the place. :hmmm
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: iRATE on March 04, 2008, 10:26:29 PM
which one do i pick for leaving it the fuck alone
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: FriendRice on March 04, 2008, 10:27:15 PM
make it shoot rockets instead of bullets
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: Medal on March 04, 2008, 10:35:41 PM
Guess it's worth noting that something like that should have an option for "classic" style :p
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: Sunfire on March 04, 2008, 10:54:23 PM
the vulcans already been tamed down enough. the original eliterenegades vulcan was insane. heavies and spawn have always dominated the mod, and always will, which it what makes it renegades. leave it alone.
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: Killer117 on March 04, 2008, 11:22:40 PM
Quote from: iRATE;248463
which one do i pick for leaving it the fuck alone

well done
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: Si on March 04, 2008, 11:32:29 PM
Quote from: Sunfire;248474
the vulcans already been tamed down enough.

True. If anything just reduce the amount of ammo you spawn with.
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: Killer117 on March 04, 2008, 11:41:21 PM
Quote from: Si;248476
True. If anything just reduce the amount of ammo you spawn with.

they already did that too.. it used to be 400.
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: iRATE on March 05, 2008, 12:00:00 AM
Quote from: Si;248476
True. If anything just reduce the amount of ammo you spawn with.


or take away weapons factory and you dont spawn with it at all
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: heady on March 05, 2008, 12:23:47 AM
wtf irate stfu gd-it
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: iRATE on March 05, 2008, 01:36:34 AM
1,000 virgins to the person who finds that 1 year old+ cry-fest thread about the vulcan, im sure theres several of them somewhere. Was like 9 pages long, had a lot of pros/cons in it.
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: Killer117 on March 05, 2008, 01:47:11 AM
Found it!  On the renegades page Scroll down, it's titled Zed Fix Vulcan.. its about half way down
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: daftie on March 05, 2008, 02:38:20 AM
give killer the pts
http://www.troc.us/forum/showthread.php?t=10280
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: HardDrive on March 05, 2008, 02:44:25 AM
what are you even talking about? the vulcan has been relatively unchanged since ren2, or ren4. for the length of eliteren it has pretty much been the same.
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: iRATE on March 05, 2008, 02:45:33 AM
Quote from: Killer117;248490
Found it!  On the renegades page Scroll down, it's titled Zed Fix Vulcan.. its about half way down


there was a 5% fee....*shrugs*
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: DeadGuy on March 05, 2008, 04:29:28 AM
Quote from: HardDrive;248495
what are you even talking about? the vulcan has been relatively unchanged since ren2, or ren4. for the length of eliteren it has pretty much been the same.
yep, hasn't been changed really, except ammo amounts. But then, everyone pings much lower these days, than they did back in the begining. Same old story of snipe and cg in base.

Also, people that want a change wouldn't know what they truly wanted anyways. Most won't understand the nuances of spread vs fire-rate until they decide it wasn't what they had in mind.
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: iRATE on March 05, 2008, 05:14:45 AM
There shouldn't be a change. Look at the load out...you have vulcan, mortar, grenade launcher, rocket, and plasma. Rockets are used for movement, grenade launcher is useless while mortar has rounds, plasma doesn't get used because of vulcan, and with weapons factory, you're not alive long enough to run out of ammo from the primary two(vulcan/mortar) to worry about what you have left in inventory.

Cyborg/vulcan is the only reason why people spawn with CYBORG, if you took out weapons factory and made people work for it, there would be a difference.
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: Gus on March 05, 2008, 05:25:04 AM
Quote from: iRATE;248501
Cyborg/vulcan is the only reason why people spawn with CYBORG, if you took out weapons factory and made people work for it, there would be a difference.

They wouldn't play.
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: heady on March 05, 2008, 09:14:40 AM
Make the fucking GL blow up on contact you fags
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: Killer117 on March 05, 2008, 01:41:33 PM
Quote from: iRATE;248496
there was a 5% fee....*shrugs*

Holdin' out on me lawl
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: HardDrive on March 08, 2008, 03:32:49 AM
Quote from: iRATE;248501
There shouldn't be a change. Look at the load out...you have vulcan, mortar, grenade launcher, rocket, and plasma. Rockets are used for movement, grenade launcher is useless while mortar has rounds, plasma doesn't get used because of vulcan, and with weapons factory, you're not alive long enough to run out of ammo from the primary two(vulcan/mortar) to worry about what you have left in inventory.
 
Cyborg/vulcan is the only reason why people spawn with CYBORG, if you took out weapons factory and made people work for it, there would be a difference.

You're missing the point. The changes that have occurred in gameplay and skill levels, along with the hacks, lead to the vulcan making more than 3/4 of the armors pointless in current day, whereas this may have been un-noticed in 2000. It's a balance issue. The reason I and many other people use cyborg is because it's the only thing that can't be destroyed in less than 3 seconds by a vulcan. It's just that simple. Disabling WF won't change that, it'll just make it a lot easier for people to rape one side or another. People like GK say it's always been like that, but it's simply not true. You used to actually be able to alien cap or use burster to destroy D or maybe even spy. But what's the point anymore? everyone's just vulcaning each other to death.  If you like DF servers, this vulcan is perfect, but if you want to actually play something you couldn't find it back when zed hosted non-WF servers, and you sure can't find it anymore.
 
It's not like I care enough to want it changed, but my point has always been that it's a horrible balance issue that breaks 3/4 of the armors in the game, and it's done nothing but proven to be true.
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: iRATE on March 08, 2008, 06:16:40 AM
How many people in the current armor servers really understand how to alien cap, much less know that theres an alien armor? With the right map, anyone in any armor can win non-stop. If the cyborg is so over powered, than anyone could pick it up and wreck havoc, and thats just not the case, it ultimately ends up being a nade/motor spam-fest.

All anyone ever plays is scout, sniper, maybe engineer and cyborg. And if someone was whoring down alien cappers then i'm glad, at least that would signify some sort of teamwork which doesn't exist in any armor servers since i started playing again.
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: Crusader on March 08, 2008, 01:01:02 PM
replace the cg in troc with a vulcan
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: Gus on March 08, 2008, 01:15:12 PM
Quote from: iRATE;249000
How many people in the current armor servers really understand how to alien cap, much less know that theres an alien armor? With the right map, anyone in any armor can win non-stop. If the cyborg is so over powered, than anyone could pick it up and wreck havoc, and thats just not the case, it ultimately ends up being a nade/motor spam-fest.

All anyone ever plays is scout, sniper, maybe engineer and cyborg. And if someone was whoring down alien cappers then i'm glad, at least that would signify some sort of teamwork which doesn't exist in any armor servers since i started playing again.

It's pointless even trying to use alien anymore.  HM has killed any advantage that had as an armor.  "Seeing" an alien makes it easy to whore especially with the lack of spread vulcan has now.
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: its me! on March 08, 2008, 02:51:46 PM
leave the damn thing alone jeez
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: iRATE on March 08, 2008, 05:40:20 PM
gtfo
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: Killer117 on March 08, 2008, 09:28:54 PM
Quote from: iRATE;249070
gtfo
^^^
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: its me! on March 08, 2008, 11:13:37 PM
Yawn why am I being bombarded by u two tards every post I make?
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: Apex on March 08, 2008, 11:18:28 PM
Because you're a faggot, alright?
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: its me! on March 08, 2008, 11:20:58 PM
Oh your another one that wants to join in wtf is this the three homo amigos?
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: its me! on March 08, 2008, 11:24:34 PM
yawn
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: Apex on March 08, 2008, 11:24:44 PM
Good one
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: FriendRice on March 08, 2008, 11:41:48 PM
Ahh Hawian is cool in my book lay off him guys :sleep:
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: Mavi on March 09, 2008, 12:03:00 AM
Quote from: Crusader;249040
replace the cg in troc with a vulcan


I second that.
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: its me! on March 09, 2008, 12:18:52 AM
Wassup! yeah its been a long time. Hope to see you spawn again anytime soon :gun:Ouch!
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: Sunfire on March 09, 2008, 12:45:58 AM
Quote from: HardDrive;248994
You're missing the point. The changes that have occurred in gameplay and skill levels, along with the hacks, lead to the vulcan making more than 3/4 of the armors pointless in current day, whereas this may have been un-noticed in 2000. It's a balance issue. The reason I and many other people use cyborg is because it's the only thing that can't be destroyed in less than 3 seconds by a vulcan. It's just that simple. Disabling WF won't change that, it'll just make it a lot easier for people to rape one side or another. People like GK say it's always been like that, but it's simply not true. You used to actually be able to alien cap or use burster to destroy D or maybe even spy. But what's the point anymore? everyone's just vulcaning each other to death.  If you like DF servers, this vulcan is perfect, but if you want to actually play something you couldn't find it back when zed hosted non-WF servers, and you sure can't find it anymore.
 
It's not like I care enough to want it changed, but my point has always been that it's a horrible balance issue that breaks 3/4 of the armors in the game, and it's done nothing but proven to be true.


Yeah and back then (when there were good armor players) there were only 5 lasers as well. No "tracking" turrets, airbases and other useless items. And yes the vulcan was more powerful (I'm pretty sure the beacons as well) in the original eliteren mod.

Players suck now a days anyway, why go to the trouble to change the entire mod just because people can't have it their way? Once the you change the vulcan people will cry about spawn and how unfair it is.
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: Chimaera4art++ on March 09, 2008, 01:25:46 AM
To be quite honest this game is to fucking old to be changing mods, just because ppl see that there is a unbalance in it. I use to love playing eliteren, but now i fucking hate it, because it seems like the eliteren servers has become ppl just spamming eachother. About 97% of the players that play eliteren use Heavy more than any other armor, or it seems like it when I play. If you take out heavy period e-ren is dead simple as that. But shit if you guys really want to talk about unbalanced, you guys need to talk about some of these turrents, or mainly the laser turrent, that shit is annoying as hell. But I guess that shit all equals out, since you have ppl who can spam/whore with hand-motars, rockets, vulcans..etc.
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: HardDrive on March 09, 2008, 03:37:39 AM
Quote from: Sunfire;249125
Yeah and back then (when there were good armor players) there were only 5 lasers as well. No "tracking" turrets, airbases and other useless items. And yes the vulcan was more powerful (I'm pretty sure the beacons as well) in the original eliteren mod.
 
Players suck now a days anyway, why go to the trouble to change the entire mod just because people can't have it their way? Once the you change the vulcan people will cry about spawn and how unfair it is.

It hasn't been altered since ren2 and ren4. in ren2, it was amazingly overpowered, in ren4, the projectile speed was different. through ren5 and all elite versions I believe it's been the same. ren2 predates eliteren, as far as I know. I'm not entirely aware of what happened in the development of eliteren, but I think it was probably based on ren3 or somewhere around there.
 
As for tracking turrets and the other useless crap, I've never wanted that, just as much as I think the vulcan ruins the gametype, I think zed's additions do the same thing.
 
It's not as though I care a ton if it changes, I'm just pointing out how when you're talking about the armor gametype, the vulcan is detrimental to the ability to use any other armor. I would never deny that cyborg is one of the focal points of the gametype, but in reality, when you're a mobile heavy armor that can survive any attack and throw mortar grenades, I think a resourceful player might be able to find usefulness without the current vulcan. I think it might even have less spread than the magnum, at least in the current versions of the magnum on SKB.
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: 10shun on March 10, 2008, 03:27:49 PM
I don't play armor a whole lot, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. When I do, I rarely RARELY use anything besides cyborg/vulcan and rocket launcher to move around.  There isn't a single other class that can kill me one against one other than another cyborg using vulcan (except maybe a scout with a well placed grenade that launches me so far away that I suicide, after killing him of course).

That's really why I don't play armor..  if I use any class besides cyborg, I get raped by cyborgs.  If I use cyborg the whole time, I get bored of using vulcan over and over (especially when the other team is doing same thing).  Every now and then I'll use a mercenary with a shield pack when a large indoor base is part of the map, but other than that..  cyborg cyborg cyborg.

My point is..  I play ren armor when I want to change up the experience of ren spawn by adding in more options and mixing things up.  When I play armor, I get bored faster than I do when I play spawn.

This is for PUB play..  I don't have any recent match experience in armor..  I used to play a long time ago but it seemed like the vulcan wasn't such a powerhouse back then.
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: DeadGuy on March 10, 2008, 08:39:51 PM
seems like all we have is pub play anyways
was there a recent armor match?
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: 10shun on March 10, 2008, 11:48:24 PM
Dunno..  I played a long time ago (in a galaxy far far away).  I play anni over ren armor nowadays though..  damn that particle beam is satisfying when you blast a scout at full speed out of the air.
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: the nazman on May 21, 2008, 11:47:40 AM
The vulcan is much too powerful
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: PrimeTime on May 21, 2008, 04:05:25 PM
How about:  
 
'delete chaingun'
 
add:
 
'anal beam shooter'  so you can shoot people trying to get at your ass
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: Killer117 on May 21, 2008, 06:48:44 PM
fail
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: PrimeTime on May 21, 2008, 10:58:16 PM
liar
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: Acides on July 04, 2008, 05:47:27 AM
Quote from: 10shun;249442
I don't play armor a whole lot, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. When I do, I rarely RARELY use anything besides cyborg/vulcan and rocket launcher to move around.  There isn't a single other class that can kill me one against one other than another cyborg using vulcan (except maybe a scout with a well placed grenade that launches me so far away that I suicide, after killing him of course).

That's really why I don't play armor..  if I use any class besides cyborg, I get raped by cyborgs.  If I use cyborg the whole time, I get bored of using vulcan over and over (especially when the other team is doing same thing).  Every now and then I'll use a mercenary with a shield pack when a large indoor base is part of the map, but other than that..  cyborg cyborg cyborg.

My point is..  I play ren armor when I want to change up the experience of ren spawn by adding in more options and mixing things up.  When I play armor, I get bored faster than I do when I play spawn.

This is for PUB play..  I don't have any recent match experience in armor..  I used to play a long time ago but it seemed like the vulcan wasn't such a powerhouse back then.
Agreed, but I'm not sure toning it down a bit is the solution, because even if you just get rid of vulcan then people will complain about mortar grenades.
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: tm_hydro on December 12, 2008, 05:48:07 PM
Quote from: Crusader;249040
replace the cg in troc with a vulcan


yea it would make the noobs feel welcome:)

Quote from: Acides;267060
Agreed, but I'm not sure toning it down a bit is the solution, because even if you just get rid of vulcan then people will complain about mortar grenades.


i have been playing tribes since i was 11 years old (in 98') and it was waaay hella fun back then when there was just light medium and heavy. not this bullshit alien class or burster. lets just have wepons factory with just cyborg scout merc and engineer and at least make the vulcan a little less powerful. in my opinion the vulcan is a noob gun used by noobs. (not to say you cant defend yourself against noobs, but cmon)
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: VivaMexico on December 12, 2008, 06:02:09 PM
how the fuck are you going to bump a 5 month old thread?
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: tm_hydro on December 15, 2008, 06:44:07 PM
oh lol i didnt see that
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: FriendRice on December 15, 2008, 10:10:05 PM
Quote from: FriedRice;248464
make it shoot rockets instead of bullets

agreed.
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: VivaMexico on December 17, 2008, 04:05:49 PM
^^*signed*
Title: Re: Vulcan
Post by: Comack on May 06, 2013, 09:40:50 AM

How many people in the current armor servers really understand how to alien cap, much less know that theres an alien armor? With the right map, anyone in any armor can win non-stop. If the cyborg is so over powered, than anyone could pick it up and wreck havoc, and thats just not the case, it ultimately ends up being a nade/motor spam-fest.

All anyone ever plays is scout, sniper, maybe engineer and cyborg. And if someone was whoring down alien cappers then i'm glad, at least that would signify some sort of teamwork which doesn't exist in any armor servers since i started playing again.
Having not been on in a while and have read this bitchfest-I can tell you this-I have not had problems with getting pwnd by cybies when playing as an alien due to one thing-predictability-a cybie player will simply charge in and kill the hell outta you with his Vulcan or toss mortar bombs, perhaps do both-the trick is to pound him with your ion rifle then the omega cannon-shorts out shields, omega cannon chews him up.
Capping with an alien requires stealth and mobility-as well as a fair amount of luck. In my opinion-not that it matters-aliens can kill the hell out of cybies so long as you keep moving and know when to back off, and you can bypass any defense so long as you have the guts.